In an inspiring conversation, we caught up with Sonal Jaitly, Associate Partner at MicroSave who leads their Gender Equality and Social Inclusion (GESI) practice.
“There is no passion to be found playing small – in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living.”
—Nelson Mandela
There is something to be said for identifying what one’s passion is and following the dream. In an inspiring conversation, we caught up with Sonal Jaitly, Associate Partner at MicroSave who leads their Gender Equality and Social Inclusion (GESI) practice. Her work focuses on women’s financial inclusion and economic empowerment, integrating a gender perspective into policies and programs, gender mainstreaming with financial service providers, combining insights from behavioural sciences and technology use, and digital financial services to enhance inclusion.
We delve into the journey of a dynamic professional who transitioned from a corporate investment banking career to making a significant impact in the social sector. Her path was not initially clear, but a deep-seated desire to align her work with her interests and values led her to explore opportunities in social impact. From volunteering with NGOs to working with Fulbright and UN Women, she has navigated various roles with a focus on gender equality and development. Through this interview, we uncover the motivations, challenges, and insights that have shaped her career and fueled her commitment to driving meaningful change.
You started your career in corporate. What inspired you to make that switch to social impact?
When you are starting your career, you're not really aware of how it would be. The youth of today is very, very smart. They know exactly what they want to do. But maybe I wasn't that smart when I started out. I started out in the corporate sector and spent close to four years in corporate investment banking. I was also volunteering with NGOs on the side. After spending that much time in the corporate setup, I realised that maybe this is not something that I would want to carry on throughout my career.
I had already started looking for things that aligned more with my interests. By that time, all my volunteering experiences had given me a flavour of the social impact sector, and I was very, very attracted to it. That's how I decided to explore opportunities in this sector. So, I didn’t find any opportunities directly, but I made the decision to transition.
My journey started with an NGO where I was volunteering, and then, I started to work with Fulbright. I enjoyed working there. My primary role was program management, managing the “Obama-Singh 21st Century Knowledge Initiative”. There was a lot of cross-cultural learning there in terms of enabling partnerships between Indian and US universities in many technical areas. So, I was interacting with learned people, university presidents, and heads of departments. I would also organise Fulbright-Nehru International Education Administrators Seminars (IAES). That was also a huge learning for me.
Later I transitioned to the UN Women and never looked back. That was my initiation into the work that I do today. This has been a journey. It wasn't very planned and thought out. It was just based on my interests, I would say, because I just wanted to do something that was more aligned to what I wanted to take forward for a longer period of time.
When you decided to make that transition to the social impact sector, how did you narrow down roles that would suit you?
I understand finance quite well, and I have an economics background. That has always been my forte. But as I transitioned, I understood the need to learn and do a proper training course on gender. I did a Master's in Gender and Development Studies, which was a part-time course. I completed this course while working full time because I felt a very strong need to understand the women's movement, how the history of the women's movement evolved, what went behind all of this, who are those feminist economists who really changed the thinking, and also what are those conventions and international treaties that drove this.
I understood the history of all of this, how it started, how it evolved, and what role the UN has played because I was working at the UN at that point in time. I would say that the course really helped me understand in depth the issues that I worked on while on the sides. I was also getting practically trained in the same area.
I would not say that from the start I understood gender. I made an effort to understand it. And I went deeper into the trenches to understand the history and political economy of gender. That, I think, really helped shape my thinking and form my own thoughts on what it means for me, my context, and women in the global south. One person I am deeply influenced by is Kamla Bhasin. She passed away in 2021, she influenced me in many, many ways.
What were the challenges that you faced in your career, both in the social impact sector as well as the corporate sector as a woman professional? How did you navigate those?
That’s a tough question! I feel that everyone faces challenges as professionals, but with women, there is an added layer of gender bias that just makes things more difficult. When I had just started my corporate career, I did not even understand some of the things that happened that were laced with gender bias. But you take time to understand that. In the social impact sector, working on gender is not easy. Being a gender professional is a very challenging task, I would say because you're actually working to change the very deeply entrenched systemic biases. In every thematic area you work on, you must bring people on the same page. Sometimes, you'll find champions, but the majority of times, you will not find those champions because people do not have those experiential threads to refer back to, and their frame of looking at the world is very different from yours.
There are also generational gaps. The context is very different. I don't work just in India, but I also work globally. So, there are inter-cultural differences due to which there is a varied understanding of gender equality everywhere. How you bring everybody on the same page to push the agenda is something that is extremely difficult and that is where leadership comes in because you really need to have those leadership skills to bring about that convergence. It is not women versus men. Rather, it is bringing everybody on the same page to drive problem-solving on an issue that is keeping all of us poor and that is keeping the entire world unequal, and exacerbating all the biggest problems that this planet is facing. So I would say that it's very, very difficult, and it only happens through communication dialogue, which is extremely important.
When it comes to integrating GEDI into process beyond policy, what is that one myth that you would like to bust regarding what works and what doesn’t in this aspect?
I don't know if I have a myth to bust. Generally for all institutions when you talk of institutionalising diversity and equity, I would say that inclusion is very easy to talk about but very hard to practise, institutionalise and ingrain in your DNA. It is a daily effort to do that. And of course, if you need to institutionalise diversity, and that would start if we just take an example of starting at the very basic point of having an equally diverse workforce, you really need to, first of all, put policies in place and then ensure that those policies are being implemented not just on paper but also in spirit and those are ingrained in the culture of your organisation.
So, culture is something abstract that is always talked about, but how do you translate that abstract into the concrete through your policies, implementation, and the daily decisions and actions that you are taking as an organisation? That is where the effort is really required because I also get increasingly very worried about all the pinkwashing that happens all around in every sector.
Gender equality is also now a very big marketing gimmick and a sort of branding strategy to look very inclusive and diverse. But when you dig deeper and dive into the trenches, you will see that it's not the day-to-day reality. That's why I keep saying that inclusion is easy to talk about but very hard to actually operationalise in your daily organisational life.
The other thing that is important is what's measured is something that gets done. If you do not have concrete targets and if you're not measuring and having a goal of where you want to go with your diversity goals, then you're really not serious about it. It might take you five years to reach there, to have 50% or 60% women in your senior management, but if it's not articulated and if it's not drilled deep down into your management at every level, then you're not going to reach there.
To implement inclusion, you have to be very intentional. It just does not happen in the abstract. You need to have policies, implement them, and have a whole monitoring and evaluation system to ensure that you're measuring targets and achieving them because otherwise, it's not going to happen.
How can organisational leaders go beyond mere policy implementation and integrate GEDI principles into their day-to-day processes and operations effectively?
If the leadership prioritises implementing a diversity, equity, and inclusion policy, it just becomes more doable or has greater chances of success. You have to also see the organisational benefits of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Reams of research now prove that gender-diverse teams and, in general, more equitable and inclusive environments drive greater productivity, which really translates into the organisation’s profits and revenues. So, it's also about being forward-looking as an organisation.
I personally do not believe in making a case for gender equality because it's a human right. Everybody should be doing it. But it's unfortunate that even in 2024, we have to keep making a case for gender equality everywhere. If you are just seeing your bottom line, even that is a value proposition because there is a lot of evidence that supports the fact that it's going to benefit an organisation. I'm not sure which sectors are untouched. Ultimately, both women and men are also consumers, customers, demographics that you work with. So it's a win-win strategy, I would say, to prioritise DEI organizationally.
How should organisations balance the implementation of caregiving policies with other GEDI efforts (such as diversity hiring initiatives and inclusive leadership training) to create a holistic approach that addresses the multifaceted needs of employees and promotes a culture of equality and inclusion?
Caregiving and understanding how important care is critical for every organisation that wants to retain employees, both women and men. All of us need care at some point in our lives. As an employer, it's important to understand that it's a part of life. It really should not be seen as something separate because organisations are made up of human beings who have responsibilities outside of work.
So how do you factor that in and create a culture and policies that support caregiving responsibilities? For example, how do you support young parents who have small children and who would have those caregiving responsibilities? Of course, it falls on women all the time as they are considered the primary caregivers. This is a systemic issue that care needs to be distributed more evenly at the household level.
There needs to be much more infrastructure support that the public and private sector needs to provide for families who need support, supplementary care from the market. Primary care is always going to be the responsibility of families, but you will need supplementary caregivers, whether it's childcare, geriatric care, or domestic work. That infrastructure does not exist today.
There is no quality and affordable care like childcare services. But if I just pick the childcare examples, there are so many things that organisations can do. It's not just running creches but also encouraging parental leave and understanding what life stage your employees are in and what kind of caregiving responsibilities they would have. Working as an organisation to create systems where the absence of one person for parental and maternity leave does not impact your functioning.
It's easier said than done because, again, it's a very very complex issue because the bigger ones can do it because they have economies of scale and they have deeper pockets. Larger organisations would be able to run a crèche for their employees but MSMEs would not have the bottom lines to spend on facilities; that is also a reality. But that is not to say that smaller firms cannot create systems that are supportive of the caregiving responsibilities of their employees. I would say focus on employees because men need to participate in caregiving and not make it just a woman's issue. Men should also be encouraged to take paternity leaves, to take leaves for caring for elderly and sick parents, and for terminally ill patients at home.
Being an inspiration to many and having led teams across roles, how has your definition of leadership changed over time?
It's about helping others grow because you manage teams and work in many different settings. It's less about you and more about working with others. It is more about listening and understanding others, bringing everyone together on the same page, creating consensus towards a common goal, and inspiring everyone who joins in that mission to achieve that common goal.
Who has been your inspiration?
I have been fortunate to work with some absolutely mind-blowing and amazing women leaders as well as some male leaders. But these women I worked with really shaped me in deep ways. One was my former boss at UN Women, Anne Stenhammer. She was the former International Development Minister of Norway. She was a real leader. She just had a wealth of experience and was an embodiment of real leadership that we talk about in theory and in books. I learned a lot from her and also managed to do some amazing work under her leadership. She keeps on inspiring me to date.
And of course, I'm very influenced, as I said earlier, by Kamala Bhasin. I have met her many times and learned a lot from her. I have also read her work. It was an opportunity of a lifetime to just know her.
Has there been anything that has been life-altering for you as far as your career trajectory or journey is concerned?
Changing sectors was something that gave me a very different frame from which to look at the world. So that is something that I'm glad about. I can't say that that was life-altering, but yes, the trajectory could have been very different if I had remained where I was. It is different today in terms of your own intellectual growth that depends on a lot of circumstances and the ecosystem on what you are able to achieve in terms of your work and make a meaningful impact. But you also need to grow intellectually. So I think that definitely has been the case.
Also being a gender and finance professional, you are able to understand how complex it really is. Even though it sounds simple, getting things done is extremely complicated. Achieving that mandate of financial inclusion and economic empowerment, so much political economy is layered everywhere on everything, which is not openly discussed. That really affects the outcomes and how everything and everybody interacts with each other. There are so many things at play and how do you get those intersections right at the right time and for the goal that you want to achieve is something that's very complicated. So understanding those complications, growing intellectually and the ability to find and navigate your way through it is something that has been an interesting journey I would say.
You have been in the social impact sector for some time now. Have you ever been disillusioned?
Oh yes, there has been disillusionment because of a lot of pinkwashing that happens. There are many people who, like me, have changed sectors and are in this sector to actually do meaningful work because we know that's something that's going to stay with us for long and gives meaning and a purpose to what we do for eight hours a day. I have been fortunate to always work in organisations that have enabled me to do true and impactful work. The social impact sector will evade disillusionment only if we constantly keep asking tough questions.
Is there something that motivates you to keep working despite the disillusionment?
I have always worked with organisations I like to work for so that has been helpful.
My network consists of a lot of women from the grassroots, and I really find them inspiring because that is the fundamental principle: if they can do it, why can't you do it with all your privilege? So thankfully our work requires us to be on the field. For example, recently we've trained an entire cohort for a new electric fleet of the Transport Corporation of Odisha and it was just mind-blowing to hear these young girls take on the conductor's job, which is so tough. You need to be on the road for eight hours. Sometimes there will not even be toilet facilities. You don't know how commuters treat you. But still the kind of enthusiasm they display and the kind of sincerity to say that I will not let other women go through experiences that I've had on public transport all the time, is something that I find very, very inspiring, and that's what I think keeps me going.
